“My most recent faith struggle is not one of intellect. I don’t really do that anymore. Sooner or later you just figure out there are some guys who don’t believe in God and they can prove He doesn’t exist, and there are some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove He does exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now it’s about who is smarter, and honestly I don’t care.” – Donald Miller
mbmarble2 April 15, 2012 at 9:20 am
I love that quote, it really shows how pride gets in the way and it can get to the point where we’re just showing off how much we know. If we don’t do everything to the glory of God then that’s sadly what happens, it becomes about us.
literary lew April 15, 2012 at 9:35 am
I like that. “I don’t care” either. And that is tremendously liberating. I really think God is capable of leading people to a knowledge of Him without me having to “convince” them of his existence. Heck, I might have to take brow-beating, intimidating, and humiliating out of my repertoire!
Good job.
terry1954 April 15, 2012 at 11:00 am
i lost a dear friend this week, not due to death, but due to lack of being in agreement over the bible. i feel bad. i can’t move away from my faith in order to have a friend. what i think is the worst though, is the fact that religion, faith, christianity, what ever name you wish to call it today, tore this friendship apart. i believe there was no winner in this matter. we each believe what we do, and i can imagine that god would approve or looked down on us smiling as he observed this happening. it bothers me yet today, that this happened. should christian brothers and sisters argue over different understandings of god’s word? what do u think?
Shirley Anne April 15, 2012 at 1:27 pm
It is a shame that brothers and sisters in Christ have to fall out over their interpretation of Scripture but there is common ground for all in Christ and that is the Gospel. there can be no alternative interpretation of that. Much of what is written in the Bible is also self-explanatory and should not need interpretation but there still remains areas that create difficulty. Although all of Scripture is good and deserves understanding it is the Gospel message which is the most important because it reveals gods love to us all and provides a way for us to become His children and heirs to His Kingdom through Jesus. Gods word should be bringing people together rather than separating them. Pray for your friend and for yourself that God will heal the rift between you.
Shirley Anne x
Kent April 15, 2012 at 12:09 pm
Huge like. One of my new favorite quotes.
EpignosisTCHR April 15, 2012 at 10:04 pm
Love this!!!
Eugene Adkins April 16, 2012 at 7:03 am
“because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.” Romans 1:21-23
lilysimons April 16, 2012 at 11:08 am
This is so true. I am just now learning about how vast the tug of war on faith is and how some have made it into a need to “prove” to the other about the existence/nonexistence of God. For me it is simple: If you believe in God, you do not need proof. If you do not believe in Him, there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. Either you have FAITH or you do not. Intellect has nothing to do with it.
creationscience4kids April 16, 2012 at 11:11 am
For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. I Corinthians 1:26-29 NASB
These quotes together say it beautifully.
I feel for you, terry. We can pray, but John 6:60-69 is the way it always is.
Alex April 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm
I’m finding apologetics more important for strengthening the faith of God’s people than for trying to win arguments against unbelievers.
T. E. Hanna April 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Agreed. I think it is very rare for a person to come to Christ through argumentation.
Carol Crouch April 17, 2012 at 2:09 pm
I think intellect sometimes replaces knowledge in our contemporary age. ‘Smartness’ is immaterial when it comes to knowing Christ. Intellect tends to be humanistic in nature. Knowledge goes deeper, below the surface. The words of a Bible Study don’t lead one to Christ if his or her heart is closed to the Spirit. I think some ‘practicing’ Christians are ‘pretending’ because they may not speak about Christ or practice a Christ-like life in their behavior and/or speech. To ‘know’ Christ, to ‘know’ God and the Spirit, is to sense a compulsion to be in reverent communication and to live life in as Christ-like a way as possible. Mistakes and sins are a part of Christian life. So is forgiveness. Col.2:3: ‘In Christ lie all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge’. I think that separates purely human wisdom apart from God and spiritual wisdom which spills over into ordinary living. 1 Jn. 4:8: “God is love”. Rom. 12:9-21 is about “Love and its manifestations”. I like it even better than 1 Cor. 13. In 1 Cor. 2:1ff, Paul did not use “impressive wisdom”, but preached ‘only Christ crucified’ by the “power of the Holy Spirit” who is the only one who can turn a person’s heart. These are thoughts running into one another, but that is how they came out.
paperdollsgetcut April 17, 2012 at 6:01 pm
People often do seem to care more about being right than about making things right. In those cases it seems to me that the whole God argument is more an external monologue that reflects an internal diaglogue that is attempting to reconcile something. In other words, the stake a person has in the argument has more significance than they claim.
Long and short of it is for me, I’d rather believe there is God and die to find out I was wrong than to believe there isn’t and die and find out I was wrong:)
iwanttobelieveingod April 17, 2012 at 8:59 pm
I like this quote. So true. It makes me reflect on the pointless arguing that so many theist and atheists do. Most of the people who participate in these long winded arguements have already made up their minds about what they believe and it does just become an intellectual battle. It stops being about God and often results in immature attacks on one another that are not rooted in love–as Christ calls us to be–at all!
andibugs April 18, 2012 at 1:16 am
this I love! Could very well apply to areas of Christian scholarship too… I wonder if I can insert it subtly in conversation in the student lounge when the arguments get too ridiculous…?